Curse

Ren Wuying · Nov 05, 2007, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Hello

What do you think is best general pve/pvp protector monk setup regarding items?

A staff, or rod + icon? What items you suggest i should use?

Cebe · Nov 05, 2007, 12:08 PM // 12:08

I use a Spirit of the Forgotten (Endgame Green Spear from Nightfall) as it has +5 energy and +20% enchantments on it, along with a protection focus with HSR Protection (20%) and +30 Health. Reason for the spear is it has +20% enchantments on it, which you can't get on a wand, along with a guaranteed 5 energy, while on a wand you usually have the "while health is above 50%" condition.

It does me fine for both PvE and PvP.

A lot of people use weapon swaps for PvP though I think...I've never been hardcore enough to warrant doing that

bungusmaximus · Nov 05, 2007, 12:15 PM // 12:15

If you really want to do it well, you also need to weapon swap, if people try to drain your energy you can 'hide' a bit when you have a negative energy set equipped. If you're in a real tight spot you can also use weapons that give more energy. Besides that, most monks in PvP use shield anyways, the real hardcores also carry more copies with armor mods against different damage sources.

Hell this is getting complicated, and I'm sure it has been discussed more, anyone knows an article on monk gear?

Turbobusa · Nov 05, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...96#post2879996

not OP's guide, thom's quote

Div · Nov 05, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

If you don't want to suck in PvP (or if you want to be a good PvEr and not just one of those typical monks off the streets with a high title because they spent 5 hours to finally complete a HM mission), use a staff. A staff provides you with 40% fast cast on your prot skills, 20% skill recharge on everything, 20% longer enchantments, and 10 energy. A 40/40 rod+icon set will give you 2 more energy and faster recharge on prot skills, but you lose the longer ench, which is really nice (plus you don't get the 20% on stuff like veil). A spear+icon set gives no fast cast, which is pretty annoying when a mob casts arcane conundrum or something stupid like that on you.

Having the extra energy/health from trash staffs like +5 or +30 is rarely worth the effort when you know how to weapon swap. I'd much rather get a fast cast on an aegis than have that extra 5 energy, because I know I can always switch to a higher set for more energy. Granted, that's what I give my heroes, but if a person's monking ability is at the level of my dunkoro's, then they're pretty bad.

For PvE, it really doesn't matter. If you want to go with one set and continue being a mediocre monk who can't weapon swap, go ahead and take a staff with +30 +20 ench +5^50 or a spear+offhand.

Ren Wuying · Nov 06, 2007, 09:54 AM // 09:54

A staff provides you with 40% fast cast on your prot skills, 20% skill recharge on everything, 20% longer enchantments, and 10 energy.

Is there a staff like this

20% prot
20% prot
20% recharge all ?

I though it's maxed in staff like kephkets refuge

Div · Nov 06, 2007, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ren Wuying

A staff provides you with 40% fast cast on your prot skills, 20% skill recharge on everything, 20% longer enchantments, and 10 energy.

Is there a staff like this

20% prot
20% prot
20% recharge all ?

I though it's maxed in staff like kephkets refuge

Adept ___ staff of enchanting gives you 20% hct prot, 20% ench, innate 20% hsr all, and inscription "aptitude not attitude" gives 20% hct prot.

the_jos · Nov 06, 2007, 11:47 AM // 11:47

I use +5e axe +20% enchantment combined with Prot offhand.
Been like ages now and never needed to change.
I do see some value for using staff, but am doing fine with my combo.
I don't want to rely on the chance that I might get a faster cast or faster recharge.
For PvP, I'd add a negative offhand and a negative weapon to use when under energy denial.

deluxe · Nov 07, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

For prot, staff is probably the best choice (adept staff of enchanting 40/20/20), because a lot of your skills are enchantments, and a staff also gives you that 20% chance of fast recharge on all your spells in other attributes that offhands dont have. (gift, remove hex, divine spirit etc).

edit: I read too little, everything i said was already said, oh well :P

Ren Wuying · Nov 07, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

what kind of energy denial set you suggest, and what does energy denial mean?

Toutatis · Nov 07, 2007, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Energy denial is something that Mesmers specialise at - destroying your energy pool to make it harder for you to cast spells (energy burn, energy surge, guilt, shame, and so many other spells that suck the blue spam points out of their unfortunate targets)

Div · Nov 07, 2007, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Energy denial isn't really a problem in PvE, so if your focus is in PvE, go ahead and use a regular staff or spear+offhand.

In PvP, enemies may use skills to deplete your energy. For those situations, you'd typically use a damage+15/energy-5 spear/sword/axe with either a shield or an energy-5 offhand that you don't meet the req for. You'll be mostly using that set against edenial people, switch to another set to cast, then switch back to prevent your energy from being destroyed.

Cebe · Nov 07, 2007, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

If you don't want to suck in PvP (or if you want to be a good PvEr and not just one of those typical monks off the streets with a high title because they spent 5 hours to finally complete a HM mission), use a staff. A staff provides you with 40% fast cast on your prot skills, 20% skill recharge on everything, 20% longer enchantments, and 10 energy.

Can I ask, does double HCT actually make much difference on Protection staves? Some of the most used Protection skills (Reversal of Fortune, Protective Spirit, Shield of Deflection) are already 1/4 cast time. Granted, there have been sometimes when I've wished a couple of the others would cast faster but not enough to make me want to switch weapon mods.

Div · Nov 07, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Can I ask, does double HCT actually make much difference on Protection staves? Some of the most used Protection skills (Reversal of Fortune, Protective Spirit, Shield of Deflection) are already 1/4 cast time. Granted, there have been sometimes when I've wished a couple of the others would cast faster but not enough to make me want to switch weapon mods.

RoF is generally something that I'd cast on any set (since it doesn't matter if you get +ench, hct, or hsr). With prot spirit and SoD, it's really nice to get the HSR on those skills (especially in HM when two guys are taking massive damage).

The biggest thing is your ability to cast SoA, guardian, and Aegis much more quickly. Getting a FC for SoA/guardian on a target that is taking a lot of damage can in turn prevent a lot more damage. With aegis, getting the FC means you'll have an extra second to prot another target if it's taking damage. HCT also helps in situations where you get arcane conundrum/frustration on you. Sure, it may be erratic, and might not seem like much, but every little bit helps.

I suppose the main question is, what else would you run instead? If you run a +5/20% with either a shield or a +30/HSR20 offhand, you get the same effect as the 40/20/20 staff, but you lose out on the HCT. That +30HP becomes dead weight when casting, and it's better off you just run a 40/20/20. With enough weapon sets (say if we could run 8 instead of 4), one can make an argument for a +5/20% with 20/20 offhand (basically you have a set for every possible energy combination), simply because you're giving up 20% HCT for 7 more energy to cast an extra spell if you ran out on the staff set, but that's not the case.

It's late, so it might not be totally clear. Let me know if you don't get it still :P

Grammar · Nov 07, 2007, 09:17 PM // 21:17

First of all, 20+20 does not equal 40, it equals 36. So the second 20% hct mod is actually a 16% hct.

Second of all, there are really only three reasons to use a 16% hct mod at all anyway, and those are (as holymasamune mentioned) SoA, Guardian, and Aegis.
So the answer to the "is an extra 16% worth it?" question depends on your usage of those 3 skills.

Ensign · Nov 07, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Unlike recharge mods which no longer stack, fast cast mods still stack and you get a 4% chance of getting a super fast cast. Those super casts are awesome.

From playing with the mods, I'd say that the second fast cast mod is more valuable than the first one. If the first one is good enough to want to use you're going to want the second one as well.

Div · Nov 07, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar

First of all, 20+20 does not equal 40, it equals 36. So the second 20% hct mod is actually a 16% hct.

Second of all, there are really only three reasons to use a 16% hct mod at all anyway, and those are (as holymasamune mentioned) SoA, Guardian, and Aegis.
So the answer to the "is an extra 16% worth it?" question depends on your usage of those 3 skills.

Wrong. The first mod gives you 20% HCT. The second one adds on to give 36% HCT and 4% QCT (quarter casting time). This will equate to a long term casting time reduction of 21% with both mods equipped, compared to 10% with only one HCT mod. This is why ensign mentioned the second one is more valuable (since it reduces the CT by an additional 11% on average compared to just 10% on the first, as well as the super fast cast).

When you have stuff like frustration+migraine on you (there were a few dungeons/areas that have it), getting a HCT or QCT on 1/4 second casts like PS and SB makes it pretty nice too.

I don't think your question is the way to approach the situation. The question should be what else would you have instead?

All of this is under the best conditions. In real situations, I'd say with confidence less than 1% of PvE monks weapon switch often enough to benefit greatly from it (a good amount would ask what weapon swapping is...), but we're talking about the most optimized situations. Weapon swapping and mod optimization comes mainly from PvP, where little benefits can make or break a game. In PvE, it doesn't really matter much and you'll get along just fine without weapon swapping or taking advantage of everything that's offered to you (I mean, at the worst you can just take ursan blessing and plow through everything by c-spacing).

P.S. I also forgot to mention dismiss condition, which is a fairly used prot skill. Some monks may also use mending touch or extinguish (on the final boss).

JoeKnowMo · Nov 07, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar

Second of all, there are really only three reasons to use a 16% hct mod at all anyway, and those are (as holymasamune mentioned) SoA, Guardian, and Aegis.

In PvE, I've sometimes needed the HCT on Rebirth for teammates who die near a patrolling mob.

P.S. Don't flame me for taking rebirth in pugs.

Spazzer · Nov 07, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Somewhere, I have a screenshot of Tommy using rebirth (in Abaddon's Mouth).

Double-hct is pretty nice. The 10% and 20% mods also stack, in case anyone was curious.

Gigashadow · Nov 08, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Wrong. The first mod gives you 20% HCT. The second one adds on to give 36% HCT and 4% QCT (quarter casting time). This will equate to a long term casting time reduction of 21% with both mods equipped, compared to 10% with only one HCT mod. This is why ensign mentioned the second one is more valuable (since it reduces the CT by an additional 11% on average compared to just 10% on the first, as well as the super fast cast).

Isn't it 32% HCT and 4% QCT?

4% both proc
16% first procs but not the second
16% second procs but not the first
64% neither proc

With both mods you therefore get 4%*.25 + 32%*.5 + 64%*1, or 81% of normal average casting time, or a 19% reduction.